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Post by Twilight Magistrate Datenshi on Sept 9, 2013 21:51:33 GMT
Thats the thing. The DM's DO do that. They say "YOu punch. Lemmy roll this AoO that you just provoked."
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Post by Effigy on Sept 9, 2013 21:54:53 GMT
How about I carry a rapier and a pickaxe on me. I will let you know which one I'm holding after rolling for attack.
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Qi'sa al-Quatir
Yesadi
The fires of rebellion are meant to be stamped out.
Posts: 52
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Post by Qi'sa al-Quatir on Sept 9, 2013 21:57:19 GMT
So everyone is fine with the following: Because that is currently what is happening. I would be absolutely okay with it under the caveat that some leniency be permitted for free actions. For example, if you have +1 BAB, you can draw as part of your movement for free. In that case, I'd think the DM is lenient enough to go "did you intend to draw a weapon while you were moving?" Which also would force the player to announce which weapon (see fudging above) rather than just assume their full arsenal. It's the similar thing for several situations. If it's a wizard, they're expected to announce before the encounter what spells they do for the day rather than spontaneous casting, an inquisitor has to announce when their judgement is on, and people are responsible for making sure their spell effects are in place. I see no reason why players having to remember something very basic (especially as often as it comes up- they should have learned by now) should be automated for them. In a similar vein you could have a mage character go "oh, well, I automatically start with mage armor cast on me because I was going to be hunting/exploring." There's nothing wrong with actually making people accountable to their characters.
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Post by Effigy on Sept 9, 2013 21:58:04 GMT
I believe assuming has no place in PnP games. You're entire argument is based off someone being to lazy to or simply forgetting something that's been a rule since day one.
It isn't hard to say I move and take out my weapon.
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Post by Colin Clout on Sept 9, 2013 22:16:14 GMT
I would be absolutely okay with it under the caveat that some leniency be permitted for free actions. For example, if you have +1 BAB, you can draw as part of your movement for free. In that case, I'd think the DM is lenient enough to go "did you intend to draw a weapon while you were moving?" Which also would force the player to announce which weapon (see fudging above) rather than just assume their full arsenal. It's the similar thing for several situations. If it's a wizard, they're expected to announce before the encounter what spells they do for the day rather than spontaneous casting, an inquisitor has to announce when their judgement is on, and people are responsible for making sure their spell effects are in place. I see no reason why players having to remember something very basic (especially as often as it comes up- they should have learned by now) should be automated for them. In a similar vein you could have a mage character go "oh, well, I automatically start with mage armor cast on me because I was going to be hunting/exploring." There's nothing wrong with actually making people accountable to their characters. Yes, there is leniency ... up to a point but players ought to eventually learn their characters. I have spent a great deal of time in-game explaining that players do not start with their weapons drawn but however they may draw it in conjunction with a move action with a BAB of +1. There is nothing wrong with that though ideally players would learn that for themselves. And TY for explaining why it is ridiculous for combat oriented to think it is okay for them to walk around for eight hours a day with their swords on their shoulders.
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Post by Twilight Magistrate Datenshi on Sept 9, 2013 22:19:53 GMT
I believe assuming has no place in PnP games. You're entire argument is based off someone being to lazy to or simply forgetting something that's been a rule since day one. It isn't hard to say I move and take out my weapon. I see your point. But here's my point: "Logic has a place in PnP games." Just because a player forgot to say they draw a weapon, doesnt mean their character would forget. I think the GM should atleast ask "What are you drawing" Its illogical to think that the character, who is a battle-hardened warrior just decides to start punching things even though he is only good with his sword or axe.
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Post by Effigy on Sept 9, 2013 22:22:41 GMT
That can simply be answered by saying
Just learn to play as your character
Its a roleplaying game where players are assuming the role of their players. So if they forget it quite exactly means their character forgot. You seem to be assuming they are two different entities.
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 9, 2013 22:30:39 GMT
I would be absolutely okay with it under the caveat that some leniency be permitted for free actions. For example, if you have +1 BAB, you can draw as part of your movement for free. In that case, I'd think the DM is lenient enough to go "did you intend to draw a weapon while you were moving?" Which also would force the player to announce which weapon (see fudging above) rather than just assume their full arsenal. It's the similar thing for several situations. If it's a wizard, they're expected to announce before the encounter what spells they do for the day rather than spontaneous casting, an inquisitor has to announce when their judgement is on, and people are responsible for making sure their spell effects are in place. I see no reason why players having to remember something very basic (especially as often as it comes up- they should have learned by now) should be automated for them. In a similar vein you could have a mage character go "oh, well, I automatically start with mage armor cast on me because I was going to be hunting/exploring." There's nothing wrong with actually making people accountable to their characters. Yes, there is leniency ... up to a point but players ought to eventually learn their characters. I have spent a great deal of time in-game explaining that players do not start with their weapons drawn but however they may draw it in conjunction with a move action with a BAB of +1. There is nothing wrong with that though ideally players would learn that for themselves. And TY for explaining why it is ridiculous for combat oriented to think it is okay for them to walk around for eight hours a day with their swords on their shoulders. clout there has been a long standing argument that is you are looking for the encounter then you would naturally have your weapon drawn so if you were say hunting and had just found some tracks i would draw a weapon m most likely a bow but if i dont have one a sword or such
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Post by Twilight Magistrate Datenshi on Sept 9, 2013 22:37:10 GMT
They are. In most D&D games I played DM always clarified player's actions. In other words they said things like "You sure you want to punch the monster" Alternatively, if the player didnt roll for perception, its assumed that their character didnt go deaf, and the DM just asks for appropriate rolls when they are needed.
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Wyatt
Blackwater Pirate
Posts: 214
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Post by Wyatt on Sept 9, 2013 22:42:09 GMT
I would say if a player runs in and attack a GM could just ask "and what are you using to attack with?"
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Post by Twilight Magistrate Datenshi on Sept 9, 2013 22:43:19 GMT
Yeh. Thats what I think should happen.
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Post by Effigy on Sept 9, 2013 22:47:36 GMT
Yes, there is leniency ... up to a point but players ought to eventually learn their characters. I have spent a great deal of time in-game explaining that players do not start with their weapons drawn but however they may draw it in conjunction with a move action with a BAB of +1. There is nothing wrong with that though ideally players would learn that for themselves. And TY for explaining why it is ridiculous for combat oriented to think it is okay for them to walk around for eight hours a day with their swords on their shoulders. clout there has been a long standing argument that is you are looking for the encounter then you would naturally have your weapon drawn so if you were say hunting and had just found some tracks i would draw a weapon m most likely a bow but if i dont have one a sword or such The only thing I can think of in this situation is the fact when I myself am out hunting I do usually have my rifle out. I don't always have it at the ready to shoot but I will have it in my hands.
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Post by Colin Clout on Sept 9, 2013 23:20:30 GMT
clout there has been a long standing argument that is you are looking for the encounter then you would naturally have your weapon drawn so if you were say hunting and had just found some tracks i would draw a weapon m most likely a bow but if i dont have one a sword or such The only thing I can think of in this situation is the fact when I myself am out hunting I do usually have my rifle out. I don't always have it at the ready to shoot but I will have it in my hands. Keyword here is usually. There may also be times when you have it hanging over your shoulder.
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Post by Effigy on Sept 9, 2013 23:31:07 GMT
8 hours to hold a rifle at ready is too long. Most of the time when it comes to hunting its a waiting game. I couldn't imagine having my weapon at the ready for that long. I would fall asleep
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 9, 2013 23:33:38 GMT
readying a weapon is a free action because it takes so little time drawing a weapon from a scabbard or pouch takes alot more time comparativly
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