|
Post by Magistrate Wizzle on Sept 6, 2013 5:13:54 GMT
In my own personal opinion the current system to flee combat is not effective. Again this is my opinion.
The current form of fleeing combat is not backed up by any pathfinder rules to my knowledge and I feel it allows creatures and players a unrealistic advantage to making some very bad decisions.
Death in Calidor is supposed to be a very real thing. This is currently be undermined by being able to be pinned by 8 owlbears with 1 hp left and rolling a ...say dc14 on a d100 to escape.
This is not realistic.
Just to be clear, I want to make it more difficult to flee a combat.
Current Flee rules
The DC is the number of rounds spend in combat multiplied by 2 Aka ten rounds in combat = a dc of 20 on a d100
I think we should change the DC by adding in multiple factors
Base DC of 50 Decrease the dc by 5 for every 10' away from creature Increase the dc for every status inflicted upon character If within threatened space make it not possible to flee
To clarify the vote is not to vote in my suggested change, it is just to get a feeler if people are dissatisfied with the current flee system.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 5:17:16 GMT
I think if you are within a monsters ability to attack you in a full round you should not be able to flee. When a character runs away from a monster that moves twice his speed it bothers me quite a bit.
|
|
|
Post by sylyle on Sept 6, 2013 5:20:41 GMT
Certain skills should be able to help like stealth say Maybe even start the DC at 25 +5/cr of the creature +5 for every round in combat -5 for each 10' out of threat (in case of reach or ranged weapons) Didn't think about status effects but yes they should account for something.
|
|
|
Post by Magistrate Wizzle on Sept 6, 2013 5:24:53 GMT
Sentar, I understand why you would think that, but some monsters move REAAALLY fast. And have ranged abilites that are REAAALLY far
How about this.
If you attempt to flee while outside the threatened zone but inside the zone of any ranged ability. They will have an attack of opportunity.
And I believe we should keep the distance away dc reduction as it is because it is a simple case of the further you are away from a creature the more it will just lose interest in you.
And we dont want to make it impossible to flee
|
|
|
Post by Magistrate Wizzle on Sept 6, 2013 5:26:18 GMT
I was also thinking about how stealth would come into play. That would purely have to be based upon concealment. If a player has concealment I say it should subtract 20 from the dc. With total concealment subtract 50
|
|
|
Post by Magistrate Wizzle on Sept 6, 2013 5:27:31 GMT
Also remember, fleeing is not something they can only attempt once. If they fail they just try again next round. It should be something that is failed more often then succeeded in risky situations.
|
|
|
Post by Magistrate Wizzle on Sept 6, 2013 5:28:09 GMT
I also don't like the idea of basing it off the monsters CR level.
Personally the higher the CR the faster I would want to gtfo
|
|
|
Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 6, 2013 7:47:13 GMT
im also of the opinion that the encounter rules should be changed to reflect logical thinking like this my first character died because a group who we had apparently seen first managed to completely surround us(the party) if your suggestion or any manner of it is later voted in there is a base necesity that the encounter rules be changed so that you are not surrounded on a roll of 1 with no actual chance to flee
|
|
Qi'sa al-Quatir
Yesadi
The fires of rebellion are meant to be stamped out.
Posts: 52
|
Post by Qi'sa al-Quatir on Sept 6, 2013 8:31:05 GMT
Personally, I think there's potential for this, it's all a matter of how in depth you want to make it. Certainly, there are a lot of modifiers you could consider: -Creature's attitude (Hostile creatures are more likely to chase, Unfriendly or even neutral would be less likely, which gives some value to Wild Empathy. -Health Conditions (This could lend similar to 4e's Bloodied system: a fleeing target at <50% hp would have reduced chance due to being slowed by their wounds, a pursuer with <50% health would be less likely to chase something that's put it in mortal peril) -Numbers (Being outnumbered makes it harder to flee as there are more pursuers) -Statuses (Being prone/shaken/fatigued makes it harder to flee, opponents who are dazed/shaken/prone/etc are easier to escape) -Commitment to Escape (Prior flee attempts, Withdraw actions, Run actions away from opponent, Defensive Fighting could all help future attempts because the fleeing target is actively working round-by-round to get away/deter pursuit)
Not that all or any of these necessarily should be incorporated, but they are examples of how several factors could be utilized.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 15:44:44 GMT
I agree Wizzle. the running away system right now is way too easy and I think it should be a lot harder. When you are up close and personal with a monster and you can run 30 feet and they can run 50. I'm sorry but making a straight up DC roll to disengage and get away is just too easy. If you get yourself in over your head like that you probably are just going to die unless you fine another way out of the situation like intimidate to scare the off. I really don't think there should be a "Make this roll and magically escape combat" option unless your character has a way of doing so "Yay dimension door!"
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 15:52:41 GMT
Why not just use the rules Pathfinder already has in place for Withdraw/Run actions? I mean, if you get knee deep in Owlbears and get overwhelmed, that's your own fault. To get away should be a withdraw followed either by a monster's charge or some other action. Maybe even parting shot, which would make parting shot actually useful? Even things like "color spray" to stun the monster followed by a withdraw are already supported mechanics in Pathfinder...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 16:18:29 GMT
I agree Wizzle. the running away system right now is way too easy and I think it should be a lot harder. When you are up close and personal with a monster and you can run 30 feet and they can run 50. I'm sorry but making a straight up DC roll to disengage and get away is just too easy. If you get yourself in over your head like that you probably are just going to die unless you fine another way out of the situation like intimidate to scare the off. I really don't think there should be a "Make this roll and magically escape combat" option unless your character has a way of doing so "Yay dimension door!" Well if we're agreeing that the flee system should be harder I'm also in the same boat as Wizzle and Mahir and although I think Wizzle's system could be adequate I feel that some more additions would be better for making the flee system more sensible and realistic. Also it would be nice to get an updated verision of the rulebook with all the new stuff that's been added to the rules already.
|
|
|
Post by Sentar(Spade) on Sept 6, 2013 17:09:47 GMT
We are still allowing players to not start the encounter correct?
Also what kind of action would fleeing be?
|
|
|
Post by Sentar(Spade) on Sept 6, 2013 17:10:14 GMT
Could you link this pathfinder rules for fleeing?
|
|
|
Post by SigniferLux on Sept 6, 2013 17:48:38 GMT
In my own personal opinion the current system to flee combat is not effective. Again this is my opinion. The current form of fleeing combat is not backed up by any pathfinder rules to my knowledge and I feel it allows creatures and players a unrealistic advantage to making some very bad decisions. Death in Calidor is supposed to be a very real thing. This is currently be undermined by being able to be pinned by 8 owlbears with 1 hp left and rolling a ...say dc14 on a d100 to escape. This is not realistic. Just to be clear, I want to make it more difficult to flee a combat. Current Flee rules The DC is the number of rounds spend in combat multiplied by 2 Aka ten rounds in combat = a dc of 20 on a d100 I think we should change the DC by adding in multiple factors Base DC of 50 Decrease the dc by 5 for every 10' away from creature Increase the dc for every status inflicted upon character If within threatened space make it not possible to flee To clarify the vote is not to vote in my suggested change, it is just to get a feeler if people are dissatisfied with the current flee system. The thing here is that martial classes get underpowered by Calidorian custom rules even more as time passes. They already were underpowered, and you keep decreasing their value even more with these rules. If you want reality, then yes, fighters should never actually be able to escape an encounter. But we are not playing a realistic game to begin with. If you want balance, leave it as it is. Since most spellcasters have a means of "blinking" (teleporting at least 400 feet) then with your ruling they will be nearly the only ones that will ever escape. I am not playing a martial class though i am heavily concerned of how much you keep nerfing them. This rule along with the fumble chart makes them even more useless than they were before.
|
|