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Post by hunterkiller725 on Aug 21, 2013 10:44:30 GMT
im making a alchemist for when bastian finally dies(hopefully a long way off) and i learned of a rule that lets you ignore prerequisits for a +5 to dc it is explained very well in this paizo thread paizo.com/threads/rzs2lbfs?Alchemist-Potion-Brewing-your-way-toid like to know what the ruling is on this as i wanna know if i can be an amazing alchemist or a kinda meh alchemist the reason for this is that in the first i can make potions for my faction and myself in the second i can make potions for me that basicly make me a shitty caster not a true alchemist
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Aramaus
Knight of The New Order
Posts: 107
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Post by Aramaus on Aug 21, 2013 20:17:57 GMT
Potions require the spell to make, all other requirements can be ignored via a +5 dc per ignored requirement.
Other versions of magic items have been debated as to whether or not the spell requirement can be ignore. Potions explicitly require the spell.
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Post by SigniferLux on Aug 21, 2013 20:42:25 GMT
Potions require the spell to make, all other requirements can be ignored via a +5 dc per ignored requirement. Other versions of magic items have been debated as to whether or not the spell requirement can be ignore. Potions explicitly require the spell. As do wands and scrolls. All other items do not need the spells. That's the reason great dwarf crafters existed who could actually wield the weapons they made.
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Aramaus
Knight of The New Order
Posts: 107
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Post by Aramaus on Aug 21, 2013 21:03:07 GMT
This is the matter of debate for this particular setting. Though the rules as they stand for Realm of Calidor are actually you do need the spell for all items with them in the requirements. (Unless Clout has changed his mind.)
And to cut the head off this argument, this is not the place to discuss such things.
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Aug 21, 2013 22:02:36 GMT
how is the game rules discussion thread not the place to ask and discuss game rules
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Aug 21, 2013 23:26:28 GMT
so where should i post this to have a meaningful discussion on the subject
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 23:29:04 GMT
I don't think this is the wrong place to ask this question and for it to be discussed.
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Aug 22, 2013 0:03:54 GMT
okay then to hell with it im starting here then and if its moved by clout then thats fine
i am only discussing this as it pertains to potion nothing else
from the two arguments on the thread i posted in the starting post(paizo.com/threads/rzs2lbfs?Alchemist-Potion-Brewing-your-way-to) one would make the alchemist the best class at brewing potions while the other makes them one of the worst if i use the +dc rules i can make virtually any potion it would just be harder while with the rules argued earlier i (as the alchemist class) can make very few potions and then only ones that are exclusive to me. I personaly am already decided that the +5dc rule makes the most sense that it can be applied to replace spells in potion making as otherwise the actual alchemist class is not the best alchemist in the game(if these assertions are wrong i would like to hear reasons why not just you are wrong also please read the other thread as most of my understanding comes from there)
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Aramaus
Knight of The New Order
Posts: 107
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Post by Aramaus on Aug 22, 2013 1:10:58 GMT
Well in the interest of answering the question, this comes from: paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html, and is the source of the +5 DC rule from magic item creation in this setting. Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
I'm not entirely clear about the cause of confusion in the thread you linked but I think its likely just an old thread and the rules have been updated since or something. (Sentar I didn't mean this is the wrong place to ask the question, its just I have heard a lot of arguing over the +5 rule and any attempt to actually change it really probably should be in the proposal section. My apologies looking back on my post I was I bit vague on what I meant, I shall leave it as a legacy to my foolishness.)
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Aug 22, 2013 1:13:12 GMT
welp my alchemist sucks...shit this is a stupid rule
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Post by SigniferLux on Aug 22, 2013 1:14:25 GMT
Most of the spells that are useful and can be imbided into potions are in your list of spells.
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Aug 22, 2013 1:15:37 GMT
heres the thing its specified that its not a list of spells i cant cast spells i can make extracts with them wich are potion only efective on me
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Post by SigniferLux on Aug 22, 2013 1:21:17 GMT
It doesn't matter. If you have the spell, you can make the potion, even if you used a wand in the process.
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Aug 22, 2013 1:22:57 GMT
thats the point i have no spell technically i have formulae not to mention my umd sucks ball cause of my super low charisma
edit: it says something about these working for spell trigger but not something else and that they dont count for magical item creation am i comepletly wrong and i can make real potions with this or what
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Aramaus
Knight of The New Order
Posts: 107
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Post by Aramaus on Aug 22, 2013 3:21:21 GMT
My understanding is you can create extracts which function identically to spells but they can only be cast by you. If they function identically to spells they should be usable in potion creation, so long as you are doing the creation. Your created potions will be normal potions usable by anyone. You just can't help other people create potions or other magical items, unlike other casting classes who can.
You would be able to create potions but you would be restricted to potions of the spell list on the bottom of the alchemist page.
That's what I gather, I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time won't be the last.
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