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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2013 12:48:52 GMT
Remember that finding skeletons and keeping them alive is an issue (they don't heal naturally). By the time a scion was level 3, a normal character would be level 5 and have access to animate dead themself. Note that the ability to create a small army is intentional - undead characters die instead of going to negative hp, and this is my attempt to make them less likely to accidentally get crit and die, since pathfinder undead are subject to critical hits.
Undead would logically get faster movement because they can hustle all day, due to immunity to nonlethal damage. They'd especially like to acquire a horse skeleton by level 2 and ride that, which would logically be faster than a normal horse because it could sprint all day (I did this in a campaign once). If they didn't need to prepare spells, they could also choose not to take a rest period, but so could a character with a ring of sustenance (more or less).
However, unless the rules change, this will not be the case because undead do not have special rules. What do you think would be reasonable, keeping in mind that someone else might find a way to negate the aforementioned nonlethal damage, or not having a requirement for sleep?
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Post by Ror'Nor on Sept 1, 2013 13:27:28 GMT
I mean they don't' have to sleep,eat,or breathe. Immune to fatigue and exhaustion its just logical for them to be capable of running 24/7 if they want.
Edit: I want more fluff and information on them before I vote to accept them. Rather people actually make there race look like a pathfinder race instead of just listing the stats.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2013 14:55:43 GMT
Sure. Here's some stuff that is going to be part of a faction post.
Long ago, the Empire of Patria was a world spanning civilization, rotten with decadence and corruption, but brimming with arcane powers. Predictably, a magical cataclysm occurred that wiped out the entire civilization, trapping them in their own private afterlife similar to the Greek version. There they spent untold millennium, until one man woke from the eternal apathy. This man used to be the most powerful necromancer in Patria, and over the span of eons, he was able to tap into the powers of the underworld and use them to achieve the power of a demi-god. With that, he created a breach from the underworld to the material realm, and slipped a few of his favored servants through. Now, with them holding open the breach from the other end, a steady flow of the undead Scions of Patria are trickling through the Breach to reclaim the land in the name of Patria.
Now, the scions are the pioneers staking a claim on land for the glory of Patria Reborn. However, while they still have needs for construction materials, they have very few other true needs, except for one: Entertainment. Most Scions who have not dedicated themselves to an administrative, religious, or military career find themselves with copious amounts of free time, and spend a great deal of effort figuring out how to fill it. Many devote themselves to art, and spend centuries trying to create paintings so sublime that even their jaded contemporaries are moved to tears. Others devote their lives to trade, buying and selling in an endless cycle, all to pay the exorbitant costs of buying a mansion crafted by master scion architects or a rare oddity from the farthest corner of the earth.
The one thing almost all scions indulge in, however, is the great game. With little to do in (un)life, most scions strive to find meaning in social status. Thus, they spend much of their time on efforts to upstage their peers - whether by buying a more exquisite porcelain vase, or by proving their superior mastery of swordsmanship, etc. - creating an elaborate network of social structure and hierarchies that shift from day to day (if not minute to minute), where a single word can imply a hundred others, people rarely say what they mean, and there are a thousand unwritten laws, of which breaking any can potentially send your social status plummeting for centuries.
Of course, this complicated social structure is not sufficient for some, and bores or irritates others. Most of these instead try to find meaning by joining the clergy, the military, or the administration, who all have close ties to each other. Social hierarchy is still very important to them, but they express it more by straightforward competition.
The clergy are the direct servants of the God Emperor, who yet remains in the underworld. Consisting of clerics, oracles, and necromancer wizards, their duties include bringing new scions out from the underworld, giving the Gift to new converts, healing damaged undead servants, and ensuring that the will of the God Emperor is carried out. They also use their channeled negative energy to solve crimes and mediate disputes by using the control undead feat to wring truth from individual scions, who would otherwise be immune to any mind affecting magic.
The military does exactly what you'd expect from a military. They compete among each other by demonstrating their prowess and skill, and by claiming land for the empire. Note that the proverbial fishing story metaphor does not apply here. If a soldier gets a particularly big or impressive kill, he will usually animate and have it follow him around for weeks, if not years (or donate it to someone higher ranking who can make use of it as a military asset, if it's too big for him to animate).
The administration works tirelessly to make sure that the scions, who often shy away from mundane work, actually get work done (not that they actually do any mundane work themselves, mind you). Their job is to enforce regulations to ensure the proper functioning of the empire (and there are LOTs of regulations). They also are in charge of ensuring the collection of resources for the empire, and the construction of great works to glroify the empire. They are aided in this task by those who have been recently been given the Gift, for the Gift is not entirely free. All those who have had the Gift applied in the past century must spend at least one 8 hours shift a day providing service to the administration, unless prior arrangements were made.
Two subdivisions of the administration are worthy of note. There is a police force who works to maintain order in the citizenry, and they are authorized to bring suspects to the clergy to verify their statements. The penal system is harsh, but nonlethal. Typical punishments involve being buried in earth for a time proportional to the severity of the crime. Murder is very rare. Additionally, there is a thriving diplomatic corps that works to a) convince other countries that New Patria is an all right place that shouldn't be purged just because the citizens don't have a pulse, and b) convince citizens of other countries to emigrate to New Patria so that they can live a life free from disease, hunger, or aging.
Scions of Patria tend towards lawful neutral. Lawful evil scions are generally forced to act almost exactly like lawful neutral scions. Most scions lack the degree of compassion necessary to be good aligned, but there are some. Chaotic scions usually cannot stand the structured nature of the Empire, and either get themselves destroyed or exiled (the lack of tolerance for the undead outside the empire usually means that exile = destruction).
You can expect more information when the faction has been approved by Clout and I post the faction description. Is that enough for now?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2013 17:14:25 GMT
If you want an entry like normal...
Physical Description Scions can come from any race. They look like the original race, but their skin is more pale, and their eyes are red (like a goblins).
Society See above.
Relations Scions have no particular enmity for any race, but generally see their condition as a superior state of being. Most will suggest that any living beings they encounter accept the Gift. They are motivated to do this, because that means new blood is entering the pool - on the bottom.
Alignment and Religion Scions are typically lawful neutral due to the society they live in. They tend to lack sufficient compassion to be good, but also lack sufficient malice to be evil. They tend to be lawful, because by binding themselves with rules they can give meaning to what might others be an endless and meaningless existence.
Scions pay respect to their savior, the God Emperor of Patria. Scions rarely follow other gods, and typically feel no need to worship any god save hedonism.
Names: Scions that came from old Patria have Greek names. Scions that were given the gift retain their names, unless they want to discard their old identity.
Age: Scions do not age, and thus take no aging penalties or bonuses, even if they had them before the Gift.
Base Height and Weight: As their original race. Due to a lack of fluid in their bodies, their weight is half normal, despite their appearance.
Racial Traits Undead Type +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha: The Gift invigorates the mind, soul, and body. Size: Scions are the same size as their original race. There are no large or tiny scions. Slow: Scions have all the time in the world, and don't move quickly on their own feat. Many powerful scions make use of undead mounts. The Gift: Scions can use Animate Dead as a spell like ability once per day. The true Gift, which creates a new Scion, can only be performed in the Well of Rebirth against a willing, alive, target. Light Blindness: The Scions hail from the underworld, and shroud their cities in gloom. Their eyes are ill prepared for bright light. Languages: Scions begin play speaking Common and Patrian. Scions with high Intelligence scores can chose from the following: Undercommon, Elven, Halfling, Dwarven, Orcish, Gnomish, Draconic.
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 1, 2013 17:50:45 GMT
they become arrogant so they get a +2 to char...yah that makes sense
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Del
Heraldry of Nise
Listening to the floating lady in the sky...
Posts: 128
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Post by Del on Sept 1, 2013 19:55:23 GMT
How exactly is this not stat OP? Are they taking damage from healing spells?
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Post by Silver on Sept 1, 2013 20:03:13 GMT
Yes. Healing damages them. And I think the 1/2 xp penalty is pretty big too.
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Azx
Knight of The New Order
I'M BACK BABY!
Posts: 136
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Post by Azx on Sept 1, 2013 20:03:34 GMT
How about making the Petra Half-Undead, that way they will better fit in with the base races
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 1, 2013 20:05:48 GMT
and they get healed by negative energy so thats only a weakness working with non undead which doesn't seem like there doing much and for how much there getting a -50 dosnt hurt much they can basically make a small army from lvl 1 with a little luck plus they have like 10 imunities from being undead
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2013 22:56:06 GMT
Unfortunately, half-undead would not work for the fluff.
Just because you're arrogant doesn't mean you have to act like it. Not that I said they were arrogant - I said they think being undead is better than being living, which is categorically true since they chose to exist in that fashion. They also, by fluff, spend a lot of their unlives manipulating people. I do not think that arguing against a +2 charisma based on my fluff is a productive argument.
Being healed by negative energy / harmed by positive is generally a wash when you are surrounded by undead. It would be a fair penalty in a normal party.
Being undead is far more harm than help at low levels. This is because their immunities rarely come up, and they are destroyed if they reach 0 hp instead of falling unconscious, which means that grouping in a party isn't as much protection as it usually is. Additionally, unless the faction/race is granted special dispensation, they cannot be resurrected.
What modifications would you suggest to make the race balanced?
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 1, 2013 23:12:44 GMT
jax i truly cant think of a way to make this race balanced in any way shape or form
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 0:44:51 GMT
Evil cleric with negative energy channel and 2 2HD zombies at level one, ya I see that as a CR3 or 4 encounter.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 1:29:48 GMT
Sentar, it's still an effective +2 LA, and it takes both time, luck, and risk to acquire those zombies. hunterkiller - That's not very helpful. Would nerfing the stat bonus or removing the animate dead spell like ability make the race balanced? What would you recommend replacing the points with? My concern is that the race is super extra fragile at level 1, and has to spend twice as long at level 1. How many characters have you seen get knocked unconscious, or even knock themselves unconscious, but go on to live and tell the tale? If those characters were this race, they'd be dead. The standard response I hear to first level death worries is "group up," but that doesn't work nearly as well as normal in this case.
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 2, 2013 1:44:45 GMT
okay so far any pc that falls below 0 hp is killed so thats not that big a defense to me my issue is that basically any class that takes this race(or is turned into it) is getting a huge advantage i can realistically be a melee wizard for gods sake that should be virtually impossible any class that needs a high char will destroy anything in terms of power a synthesis summoner scion would rape almost anything of its lvl and a little higher while most races have a class or two they are good at this one have none its bad at the stats are just the beginning the spell like is way to powerful and the minus work to well in our game to really be worth only that much and slow doesn't hurt as much as youd think though it is a start
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Post by Silver on Sept 2, 2013 1:53:03 GMT
Actually synthesist wont be that awesome with this. The str boost would be wasted.
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