constantine
Volken
Constantine Ilfrey, Wizard Extraordinaire. For a sum i can make you feel as good as it gets.
Posts: 242
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Post by constantine on Aug 25, 2013 9:22:33 GMT
I don't know what kind of horses you people have seen but they are only good on flat grounds. There is a reason medieval fights took place on open grounds and not in forests. Forests and bad terrain would make cavalry useless. Think about Agincourt. The french horses were useless because of the soft ground and forested terrain. A horse cannot gallop through a forest or on muddy soft ground. Some horses are also afraid of water (i guess this can be alleviated in warhorses).
The advantage horses give is that they walk moderately faster than a human and they have very good stamina(you can cover great distances on a horse without resting. A horse can gallop for some time but cannot keep that for long.
I agree with increasing move points while moving on flat terrain (maybe even on hills) and roads but the bonus should go away when entering forests (without roads), swamps and mountains.
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Aug 25, 2013 10:18:32 GMT
a horse can maintain a canter for most of the day and that is the speed that is listed as its combat speed of 50ft when you take into account it can move 100 ft in 6 seconds this is basically a light jog which horses can do in most forest only a really heavy one would prevent this. there are also different horse breed depending on the area ther are horses that do better on soft ground and ones the do better on mountains hills and even some desert breeds
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 19:01:35 GMT
I don't know what kind of horses you people have seen but they are only good on flat grounds. There is a reason medieval fights took place on open grounds and not in forests. Forests and bad terrain would make cavalry useless. Think about Agincourt. The french horses were useless because of the soft ground and forested terrain. A horse cannot gallop through a forest or on muddy soft ground. Some horses are also afraid of water (i guess this can be alleviated in warhorses). The advantage horses give is that they walk moderately faster than a human and they have very good stamina(you can cover great distances on a horse without resting. A horse can gallop for some time but cannot keep that for long. I agree with increasing move points while moving on flat terrain (maybe even on hills) and roads but the bonus should go away when entering forests (without roads), swamps and mountains. For the most part I'd completely agree with this, except I'd say forests make horses "tactically" useless in a battle because they hider movement, but not by too much, at least in the case of forests. Overall, I agree with increasing move points while moving on flat terrain (maybe even on hills) and roads, however I think this bonus should only be reduced when entering forests while being completely negated in only swamps and mountains.
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Post by SigniferLux on Aug 27, 2013 4:19:10 GMT
Just another proposition, since i have tried it and it works wonder on roll20.
The GM could make the tiles count as specific miles in the options. That way official rules on traveling can be used, counting the ammoun of time needed with a roll20 ruler.
On the subject of horses, yes, horses are unable to effectively use their high speed on non-plains ground. But the horse is not used for it's running speed, but for it's walking speed. Horses, being larger than humans, make bigger steps. As of that, their basic (walking) movement is considered higher than the average. In short, big horse bigger steps than small man.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2013 10:27:53 GMT
I've ridden horses through the appalachian mountains in the US they do pretty well, I wasn't going to the peaks but the slope isn't too bad for them. Horses do swim btw, I haven't met a horse that doesn't like to splash around in the water, but I could easily imagine horses getting stuck in marshes. Forests I've been in have not posed much problems to horses, no I wouldn't gallop through them but a jog or fast walk is not going to have issues. When riding for weeks at a time you have to feed a horse grains/oats (more nutrient dense food) to keep it at a fast pace all day. So I would assume that would be in the cost of sending out a party.
Anyways I came to this thread to bring up character movement enhancement, we have our first monk, at lvl 6 he moves as fast as a horse. What do we do? at level 6 for my druid I get 60 ft perfect flying for 12 hours a day, what do we do?
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Post by Effigy on Aug 27, 2013 15:46:26 GMT
I think your guys version of a forest vastly differs from mine. Perhaps because I live in a temperate rainforest. So much undergrowth prevents horses from anything but trail riding. And I live in the rockies which are completely different than your appalachian hills.
I considered myself pretty well versed in horses as I grew up on a ranch and a horse cannot sustain 100' per 6 seconds (11.3mph) almost all day. A well trained horse could do it for maybe an hour.
Even the pony express didn't canter the whole way, they switch between a canter and trot, and they switched to fresh horses every 10 or so miles.
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Post by Effigy on Aug 27, 2013 16:18:04 GMT
One mistake I think many of you are making is underestimating the speed of people. Over long distances a determined person can nearly match the speed of a trained horse.
Horses were mainly used in combat because of a massive burst speed, but a gallop will exhaust a horse around 3 miles.
They are also great at carrying weight so people don't have to.
Needless to say if you check your history and such an average medieval person was happy to travel 20-30 miles a day by either horse or foot.
And before someone say "yea they can't gallop or canter long, but they can pretty much trot all day" I challenge them to spend an hour on a trotting horse and say that again.
PS your ass will hurt
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cybernx
Blackwater Pirate
Posts: 382
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Post by cybernx on Aug 27, 2013 16:30:47 GMT
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Post by Effigy on Aug 27, 2013 16:37:32 GMT
That is an Arabian horse. A small light horse built for long distance not quick bursts. They can travel long distances fast yes, but only with a light rider on top. Any armor will break this poor horses back
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Post by Effigy on Aug 27, 2013 16:42:15 GMT
Anyway posting a link like that is the same as me saying look up donothan bailey if you want to see how fast the average person can run
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Post by Effigy on Aug 27, 2013 16:57:41 GMT
I just did a little research and found palfreys were the ideal travel horse in the medieval period because of their gaited trot, called an amble. Though not as fast as a canter the palfrery could maintain it amble for long periods of time and not cause its rider the same discomfort a trot would. Such a horse would travel about 50 miles a day
Note : even then a knight would use a second horse to carry his gear
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Aug 27, 2013 17:10:36 GMT
so from this we could assume that a pathfinder palfrey(would require a custom profile) could carry an average human 50 miles a day over flat lands hills and light forests
so this vreatur could carry about 180 pounds give or take 50 miles a day meaning he could carry an average medium creature 4 hexes per day
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2013 17:15:42 GMT
Oh I don't want to ride a day of trotting, I like my balls. A horse can walk maybe not quite twice as fast as a person but hey 50 isn't twice as fast as 30. I assume a monsters movement in game is representative of a fast walk. But again how do we want to deal with various mounts in game?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2013 17:18:05 GMT
Well hunter, forests are 2x as hard to move through and mountains 3x as hard to move through in this game.
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Post by hunterkiller725 on Aug 27, 2013 17:18:08 GMT
i was talking about a palfrey wich aperantly dont castrate you on a full days ride and can travel about 50 miles a day based it offa what effigy said
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