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Post by Colin Clout on Aug 11, 2013 22:34:19 GMT
After spending some time with the Kingdom Building rules in Paizo's Ultimate Campaign, I have elected not to try to adopt any form of that system. I think the loyalty and unrest type systems are good, but all in all I think the system is overly complicated for what we are doing here. The loyalty of everyday citizens seems like a superficial element in the grand scheme of what our game is about. I do like the district and lot building technique for city building, but the specific buildings listed here under buildings just don't adhere to what we are doing. I am open to hearing what anyone thinks about the kingdom management rules, such as loyalty, economy, unrest. et.c, but again just don't see it as anything more than rules for a small adventuring party competing against npc kingdoms and little to do with our situation. So, this is an open invitation for ideas regarding buildings that can be added to city districts. What types of buildings would you like to see? What types of benefits would they add to your city? Drawbacks? etc. Keep in mind we have rules concerning fortifications and resource improvements; I'm referring more to in city buildings like Academies, Taverns, Homes, Markets, Mints, Museums, Libraries.... on and on. Go wild. Please give specific game mechanics and not vague generalizations. Questions?
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Post by Effigy on Aug 11, 2013 23:12:20 GMT
Well an idea I have would only become effective under grand army building (aka npc hiring) but we could build guild buildings. A guild building will cost a significant sum of money and require large up keep to the guild. However it's benefits would be hiring stronger army units.
A fighters guild will allow you to roll for recruitment once a week. The roll will indicate a special type of unit to add to your army. Special units will have higher upkeep costs. The same would go for mage guild and theives guild.
Different churches would allow you to roll for a form of benefit/curse. Ranging from "You displeased such and such god and find your granaries infested with maggots, upkeep this week increased by 500, to "A devote cleric of the order shows up and decides to aid your army, -10% casualty loss for 5 weeks."
A market could decrease the upkeep or increase the profit of the city based off the number of resources located within one hex of the city/town/whatever by ~20%, stacking.
Homes themselves I do not think should require to be built as civilians themselves should be able to build their own homes. But a development of social housing district may just increase the population increase for a given time.
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Post by Effigy on Aug 11, 2013 23:16:58 GMT
We could also introduce a squalor/corruption debuff on citys/fortifications that increase upkeep or decrease profit based off different factors.
Negative factors: Distance from capital No road connecting to capital Lack of fortification Unemployment (no resources within 1 hex) Availabilty of spice etc
Positive factors: Road connecting to capital Military presence Fortifications Court house Gold mine Luxury resources
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constantine
Volken
Constantine Ilfrey, Wizard Extraordinaire. For a sum i can make you feel as good as it gets.
Posts: 242
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Post by constantine on Aug 11, 2013 23:41:14 GMT
I want Academies and Libraries. Academies can offer magic training and later when we have NPC armies they can offer acolytes to support the armies. Academies could also set up shops that sell scrolls, magic paraphernalia (wands and other stuff like that but I think these will be restricted only to high level academies and their number will be very limited) and potions to PC's depending on the level of the academy. The higher the level of the academy the higher level items will be. There should be a hefty price spent to build them and we can even put a maintenance cost if the benefit is too great. We could have 5 different levels for academies. A level one academy should be a few wizards and up to 10-20 acolytes doing research and training in magic. They should be able to provide 5 novice spellcasters for NPC armies. A level two academy should be bigger already established with more wizards more acolytes and they should be able to set a shop selling basic spell scrolls and weak magic potions they will also provide 5 novice spellcasters and 5 medium ones to NPC armies. A level three academy should be an already established school moderately known in the region. They should have a good faculty and rather big number of acolytes. They should be able to offer medium level spell scrolls and potions and some basic magic items (wands of light and other minor items like that but they will be very limited in number and they will restock once every two weeks). A level three academy will also provide 10 medium spellcasters for NPC armies. A level four Academy should be rather famous and have great number of teachers and very big number of acolytes. They should be able to sell a few high level scrolls and potions and a few medium power magic items, also minor magic items will resupply weekly and the medium ones every three weeks. They should be able to send 10 medium spellcasters and 5 advanced ones for NPC armies. A level 5 academy should be a legendary school of magic. Known throughout the world, the faculty should be composed of famous wizards and they should have a huge number of acolytes. They should be able to supply high level spell scrolls and potions and a very few high level magic items (minor magic items should resupply every three days, medium ones will resupple every two weeks and high level ones should resupply monthly). They can also provide 10 advanced spellcasters for NPC armies and 10 medium ones. They will also be able to supply an archmage level caster for city defense but only for city defense. If the Archmage is killed in action then the Academy loses some of it's prestige and demotes to a level 4 one. The costs of establishing an academy will scale with the level of the academy. Higher level academies will be very expensive and a level 5 one can be only established by a very successful country.
Libraries would also be awesome for researching stuff. I want to propose we have different levels of libraries (lvl 1 to level 5). A level one library will be a small library sufficient to research general stuff about the world and it's inhabitants. It should give a bonus to land rolls for that kingdom (I'm thinking of a +1 or a +2 to land rolls to find encounters and resources). A level two library should be bigger and give a +3 bonus to rolls. A level three should give a +6. A level four should give a +9 and a level five should give a +15. The drawback is that this will only apply to to parties that leave a city to do a land search to simulate that the ones getting the bonus have studied the library about the surrounding areas and it's denizens. The bonus should apply for only a land search for a level one library and up to three land searches for a level 5 library. As the level of the library increases so does the price to build it. A level one should be around 5,000gp while a level 5 should be 50,000gp to reflect the big bonus they give. Libraries could also give a bonus to the other Knowledge skill not related to land searches or resource rolls and should work by lowering the DC by 5 for every day spent researching in the library. The character can't do anything else while researching. A level 1 library will cap at a 10 reduction in DC while a level 5 library will cap to a 50 reduction in DC.
We can also have Inns that will bring profit in the city they are built and maybe act as a hub for hiring NPC cohorts(if they will implemented).
Homes could bring in revenue. We can approximate a number of houses dependent on the number of inhabitants in the city and then from those derive the tax income of the city. If not we can only deal with stuff like PC houses which is also great.
Mints could increase the revenue a country get from gold mines. It could be something like a 25% increase but they will be expensive to build.
We can also have thieves guilds. They will lower the profit you get from a city but they will detect foreign agents in the city they are set in. They could have 3 levels. A level one will only detect agents in the city while a level three should be able to detect two hexes around the city.
We can also have museums. They will need a type (art museum, war museum and so on) and they will give a different bonus depending on what type of museum it is. Art museums can give an increase in revenue to simulate that it keeps the people happy and productive. A war museum should give a bonus to armies when fighting against a certain country to simulate that the nation knows about it's enemies and how they fight what armors they wear and so on. The bonus should be lost if we don't go to war with that country for 5 years to show that they may have changed their tactics and equipment. We can have natural history museums that can give a bonus when figthing wild beasts and primitive tribes. We can have a geology museum that can give a bonus to land searches or maybe a bonus to revenues from mines.
We can have apothecaries that can shorten the healing times for PC's.
We can have drydocks that can shorten the build time of vessels and allow the building of bigger and stronger ones. This can only be built in seaside cities.
We can have Docks that would allow the establishment of trade over water. It should have levels and each subsequent level will allow one extra trade route to be established. The high level docks can only be established in cities that are on the seaside.
If we end up having NPC armies we should able to build barracks to improve the quality of the armies. We should also be able to build workshops to improve the quality of their weapons.
That is all i can come with for now. I will think about it more and made additions as necessary.
Also keep in mind that all the numbers are tentative and will be put thorough intense balancing if the propositions are added. I also don't mind if people make suggestions.
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Post by Effigy on Aug 11, 2013 23:52:47 GMT
I do not like that system for libraries. I do not see the direct correlation between library and land search. I think a library could simply be a static buff to casters in the city. Or perhaps multiple different buffs that can be triggered or the week, only one at a time.
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constantine
Volken
Constantine Ilfrey, Wizard Extraordinaire. For a sum i can make you feel as good as it gets.
Posts: 242
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Post by constantine on Aug 12, 2013 0:01:50 GMT
Yeah now that i think about it maybe the bonus should only apply to finding resources. I propose that it works like that to simulate that someone that studies books about the surrounding area has a greater chance of finding stuff. After all a ranger shouldn't know that much about minerals and metals unless he's a dwarf. But if he studies a book about it then he will know how to recognize minerals and similar stuff. I will also propose a rule change that we should be allowed to choose anyone from the party to give the bonus to rolls. Right now it's a bit dumb because many rangers will not take Knowledge skills but for example a wizard will. Why can't a wizard look for resources if he is well versed in Geography or nature or whatever.
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hemata
Blackwater Pirate
Posts: 451
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Post by hemata on Aug 12, 2013 3:01:24 GMT
Well sooner or later we'll probably find some caster who aspires to be a lich, and research facilities should definitely be necessary with such, a spellcaster's best friend and to those who aim to kill whatever such a caster seeks to control.
Rather than having barracks improve the quality of armies, they should be necessary in order to recruit soldiers. I like the ideas put up here and support both, except for the whole libraries giving bonuses to land searches of course, that's just strange.
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Post by Silver on Aug 12, 2013 3:03:48 GMT
Personally, I would DEFINITELY love to be able to build something along the lines of a great library, long as it provided mechanical benefits of one (research bonus, ability to buy spells, etc)
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Post by Effigy on Aug 12, 2013 3:05:58 GMT
We should also think about building walls.
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samuelm
Knight of The New Order
Posts: 133
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Post by samuelm on Aug 13, 2013 8:10:26 GMT
Arena's and churches could work too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 12:42:36 GMT
Well I was thinking that the library would effect the speed and/or quality of NPC mages that a town could produce. Once a week or something the nations leader would roll for troop training and what he rolled would be split amongst the number of troops he was trying to train. And it would require so many points for each type of troop to mature like a fighter requires 5 points but a Mage requires 10. A library would then give a bonus to that roll if it included mages.
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cybernx
Blackwater Pirate
Posts: 382
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Post by cybernx on Aug 31, 2013 20:50:01 GMT
Is this thread still being watched and suggestion taken or has the time passed as the Orc thing is out?
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