|
Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 16, 2013 7:53:17 GMT
currently wizards arnt allowed to get there item at lvl one wich means choose a familiar or have to make a dc20+spell lvl concentration test on every spell until you get one i propose wizards bonded object be considered mundane to anyone but them. a bonded object is an object a wizard has put a small part of his magical power in and for a bond with so it is basically a magical item this would fix the issue with wizard not being able to realisticly pick bonded object and the mwk item issue
|
|
johan
Heraldry of Nise
Posts: 58
|
Post by johan on Sept 16, 2013 14:25:46 GMT
So when you say Mundane to anyone but them what are you suggesting exactly because you also reference it as being a magical item?
I mean I agree with you. I think it's a little sad that wizards cannot take one of their level 1 class abilities at level 1 but at the same time I agree with the stance the Magistrates have on the matter. I suggested a similar thing early on where wizards were able to bond with an item even if it's not Masterwork and if they ever want to upgrade it down the road they will just have to take the level 2 spell that makes their item masterwork (Which they can get at level 3)
I just think that if you start referring to it as a magical item in any sense of the word it's going to get shot down again but I agree that they should be able to bond with any item they choose. Or if GM's are really opposed to the whole masterwork weapon thing (Cause I think that's what the real issue is. They don't want wizards starting with a MW weapon for free) then take that one away. The wizard can bond with anything else be it a ring (Which can be upgraded later to be a magical ring) or a wide variety of other items.
Either way there are ways around this that doesn't involve hurting wizards at level 1. The Arcane Bond was put in there early on for wizards to give them a little bit more low level versatility and survivability.
|
|
|
Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 16, 2013 14:55:32 GMT
a wizards bonded object is a magical item it has a magicla aura that idetifies it as a bonded item the reason you can cast a non prepared spell from it is the wizard has made it a magical item albiate its more akin to a wondrous item than a magical weapon
as for taking it at later lvls i dont think you can at level one its a choice between a familar and a bonded item while you can take a different familiar or bonded item than you original one i dont believe you can switch from a familiar to a bonded please correct me if im wrong and if you have chosen bonded item and dont have said bonded item(like with the current rules) you suposed to have dc20+spell level concentration test
|
|
|
Post by Silver on Sept 16, 2013 15:11:21 GMT
Personally, I have no problems with Wizards getting a masterwork item. I cant see how they can abuse it.
|
|
|
Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 16, 2013 15:32:10 GMT
neither can i but the discussion was locked so this is the fix that i hope wont be
|
|
Qi'sa al-Quatir
Yesadi
The fires of rebellion are meant to be stamped out.
Posts: 52
|
Post by Qi'sa al-Quatir on Sept 17, 2013 5:16:03 GMT
I'm a bit reticent on this for a few reasons, not the least of which is the idea of finding and answer, being dissatisfied with said answer, and just keeping making the argument over and over in opposition to the rules to just push it through anyway.
The other is primarily the concept of introducing free masterwork into the system, for two reasons: 1) Economic concerns: as it is, the economy is entirely player driven, and there is a good deal of required skill and/or time involved in making these goods, just allowing them to influx freely diminishes the worth of them as well as the worth of persons capable of producing them
and 2) We're already at the point where there are a few people stretching past the borders of good taste with the amount of min-maxing being put in, and moving onto the border of mathematical improbability. The benefits of even a single MW weapon given freely (beyond the spontaneous casting ability) translates to at least a trait level benefit, which would make Wizards - a class that already power creeps with level progression faster than everyone else- even more susceptible to number crunching abuse. While I'm not sure it would amount to a *huge* difference, I'd still rather not help the people stretching the edges of math-grinding along any more than they are capable of now.
That being said... I think houseruling to allow rings/amulets/wands under the condition that they are untradable (much in the way encounter spoils have been) would remedy both those problems, while still allowing the wizard options if they are actually wanting it for the intended purpose (spontaneous casting ability) and RP flavor rather than a way to game the system in bonuses or financial value.
Just my 2 cp.
|
|
|
Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 17, 2013 7:45:19 GMT
I'm a bit reticent on this for a few reasons, not the least of which is the idea of finding and answer, being dissatisfied with said answer, and just keeping making the argument over and over in opposition to the rules to just push it through anyway. The other is primarily the concept of introducing free masterwork into the system, for two reasons: 1) Economic concerns: as it is, the economy is entirely player driven, and there is a good deal of required skill and/or time involved in making these goods, just allowing them to influx freely diminishes the worth of them as well as the worth of persons capable of producing them and 2) We're already at the point where there are a few people stretching past the borders of good taste with the amount of min-maxing being put in, and moving onto the border of mathematical improbability. The benefits of even a single MW weapon given freely (beyond the spontaneous casting ability) translates to at least a trait level benefit, which would make Wizards - a class that already power creeps with level progression faster than everyone else- even more susceptible to number crunching abuse. While I'm not sure it would amount to a *huge* difference, I'd still rather not help the people stretching the edges of math-grinding along any more than they are capable of now. That being said...
I think houseruling to allow rings/amulets/wands under the condition that they are untradable (much in the way encounter spoils have been) would remedy both those problems, while still allowing the wizard options if they are actually wanting it for the intended purpose (spontaneous casting ability) and RP flavor rather than a way to game the system in bonuses or financial value. Just my 2 cp. im fighting this ruling because it severely limits a classes options at lvl 1 that is why the items only work as mwk for the wizard a class that usually cant hit much with a physical attack anyway and even with normal the only way a wizard would give up a bonded item is if you killed him the item im proposing would basically be a minor wondrous item that functions as mwk as long as the wizard is alive and for the wizard only it cant even be enchanted *edit* fixed some typos
|
|
|
Post by Ror'Nor on Sept 17, 2013 13:00:21 GMT
I like the idea that the wizard can have there arcane "masterwork" item but to anyone else it counts as just a normal version of the weapon.
|
|
kaldre
Covenant of Secrets
Posts: 9
|
Post by kaldre on Sept 17, 2013 22:31:48 GMT
I think the main concern is that they can just give it to someone else then reroll another character. They could just make it so that it's a special type of MW that becomes non-MW if someone else uses it.
or they could just allow a non-mw weapon to be a bonded item.
|
|
|
Post by Silver on Sept 17, 2013 23:04:03 GMT
I think the item is only masterwork virtue of Wizards power. Wizard lets it go, it becomes mundane.
|
|
|
Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 18, 2013 11:33:18 GMT
I think the item is only masterwork virtue of Wizards power. Wizard lets it go, it becomes mundane. thats my proposal the the wizards bonded object is mwk only-because of the wizard but normally it is just a mwk weapon i also added a pre poll
|
|
|
Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 18, 2013 12:13:44 GMT
if there are no issue brought up by the 25 im submitting this
|
|
|
Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 19, 2013 14:35:19 GMT
if you have issues with the rule please voice them
|
|
|
Post by hunterkiller725 on Sept 19, 2013 16:51:15 GMT
I think the main concern is that they can just give it to someone else then reroll another character. They could just make it so that it's a special type of MW that becomes non-MW if someone else uses it. or they could just allow a non-mw weapon to be a bonded item. im trying to keep it as close to the normal ability as possible making the rule non mwk item allowed is a last resort
|
|
Del
Heraldry of Nise
Listening to the floating lady in the sky...
Posts: 128
|
Post by Del on Sept 19, 2013 18:33:46 GMT
currently wizards arnt allowed to get there item at lvl one wich means choose a familiar or have to make a dc20+spell lvl concentration test on every spell until you get one i propose wizards bonded object be considered mundane to anyone but them. a bonded object is an object a wizard has put a small part of his magical power in and for a bond with so it is basically a magical item this would fix the issue with wizard not being able to realisticly pick bonded object and the mwk item issue Why not just state at lvl 1 if you take an object to bond with it is mundane but grants the benefit of the extra spell and eliminating the concentration check. If we go this route then I suggest the first re-bonding be free and must be a masterwork quality item. All that said truth be told this is a silly argument. Seeing as the wizards bonded item isn't really master-worked from special material at lvl 1 and offers not bonus to ac or hit. Its at later levels when you can add magical enhancements that it starts getting bonuses.
|
|